LHC Status

[cosmictraveler]

Just what are they trying to find? They spent A LOT of money on this, so they must be pretty sure of finding something. But what? I watched a show about it but I am still not sure. Some say they will find what they call the Higgs boson particle or GOD particle.
Also they say they are trying to prove if there are extra dimensions, dark matter, and some other things. My question is, if they do find it, what are they going to DO with it?

They are trying to understand just how the universe works. In solving complex problems about how the universe works they can then use that knowledge to better humanity as well advance the data bases about all physics. Your MRI, CAT scan , and other nuclear medicine all came from physics as well as many other things like atomic energy that makes electricity. Imagine if they find out how fusion is happening so that they could make a fusion generator of electricity for humanity that could be an endless power source .

[MeteorWayne]

I will merge this into the existing LHC thread in the Physics forum later today.

[bdewoody]

Isn't this the month that they are upposed to start the grand experiment? I can'y seem to find much up to date news about the big event.

[darkmatter4brains]

Isn't this the month that they are upposed to start the grand experiment? I can'y seem to find much up to date news about the big event.

Last I heard they were going to start up in Oct, but the half power runs won't be until Nov. But that's from two months ago or so.

I hope they turn it on soon - the anticipation is killing me!

If you google LHC you should be able to quickly find the main LHC site, which has some news/updates.

Also, search LHC on youtube. There was a semi-official news stream on there that had an update each month roughly.

[darkmatter4brains]

LHC Update:

http://www.physorg.com/news175812230.html

Looks like they're on schedule for end of the year, so far ....

[MeteorWayne]

Finally, some good news. thanx!

[harper05]

Good news for the LHC = sad news for the tevatron, as it is expected to cease opperations in 2010 made obsolete by the lhc. My aunt and uncle were employed there briefly, and observed the discovery of the top quark! They went to work for the naval weopons center in Ridgecrest, ca. I wonder were all of the other tevatronians are going? Probably LHC...

[Astro_Robert]

I had thought that with all of its upgrades the Tevatron was actually currently running at 2T, which might still be half of short term power at LHC, but not a mere quarter. But I do think shutting Tevatron down, regardless in the power level differential, is a shame. There must be some good science that can still come from the beams it can deliver. And anyway, I wouldn't think all science experiments would require LHC energy levels.

Disclosure: I was a big fan of SSC, and was bummed at Clinton for torpedoing it.

[SpeedFreek]

On the other hand, if they find out Higgs particles (and their associated fields) don't exist, well ......

I was under the impression that the LHC was only able to test the lower regions of the energy range where we might find the Higgs?

[harper05]

CDF and DZero, at fermilab may actually find the higgs before lhc.
the cdf expirement is helping to zero in on the Higgs mass through its relationship to the top quark, while the Dzero is involved in the direct search for the Higgs, and in analyzing the combined dataset from both experiments.

Tevatron has an energy of about 2 TeV (two trillion electron volts, the combined energy of both counter-rotating beams), is the world’s most powerful accelerator. (until the LHC comes online)

By combining their results the teams have effectively doubled the amount of data in their search. The result is that they have established that the Higgs will almost certainly not be found – the chances are less than one in twenty – lying within the mass/energy range between 160 and 170 GeV/c2.

Earlier results from CERN’s LEPC established that the Higgs must “weigh” more than 114 GeV, and theoretical calculations supported by observation indicate the Higgs must weigh less than 185 GeV. Thus the mass/energy range excluded by the new analysis takes a big bite out of the upper end of the search range.

(Because mass and energy are equivalent, as expressed by E=mc2, particle masses are written as their energy in electron volts, divided by the speed of light squared; the speed-of-light term is often omitted for convenience).

The new constraints on the likely mass of the Higgs announced by CDF and DZero change how the Higgs will be seen and the possibility that it could be found at Fermilab!

At low mass, the Higgs involves finding b-bbar pairs, referring to the bottom quark, b, and the antibottom quark, bbar; the more likely route for a higher mass Higgs would be to decay via two W bosons. In the lower mass region, there is a lot of background from other events, clouding the data..

And in this low mass region, it may be more difficult for the LHC, It will have to run longer to sort through all the data. and with th improved methods, and the doubling of the dataset, the Tevatron has a better than one-in-three chance to find it, and it keeps getting better. The Tevatron is running great! But by the end of 2010, the LHC may have enough data to make the big discovery.

Way off topic sorry Mods.

[harper05]

Me too, they are renting plots of the ssc tunnel for storage .

Lots of good science can come from the tevetron! In fact with the cdf and dzero experiments at fermilab they are computationally better at analyzing data than lhc, and because of that have a pretty good chance, 1 in 3, of finding the higgs at lower energy levels, where lhc will have a harder time.

I think its more a matter of budget cuts than anything else that will spell its demise. There is never enough money for science.. At least in the USA

[MeteorWayne]

I moved two posts from another topic to this one where they seem to fit better.

That makes them on topic harper05; thanx for the VERY informative post!

MW

[doom_shepherd]

Imagine if they find out how fusion is happening so that they could make a fusion generator of electricity for humanity that could be an endless power source .

*Looks skywards*

Hey, I can see one of those right now! Whup, it's setting...

Yeah, I like exotic experiments. I just hope we can learn enough to actually make use of the stuff we learn. I mean, it's no good knowing we can have infinte clean energy if we just hypermodulate the frammistan particles with the somethininium, if we can't make somethininium without blowing up the sun. We kind of NEED it.

[ittiz]

I think its more a matter of budget cuts than anything else that will spell its demise. There is never enough money for science.. At least in the USA

I don't know about physics research but I work in the Biotech industry is there are boat loads more money for research in the US. I've talked to people who did research in both Europe and the US and they say money is way easier to get here. I think the problem with colliders is building really big ones cost so much only governments have the money to pay for it. And it's hard to get congress to agree to pay billions of dollars to find a few particles. Especially when all they care about is their pet projects and have no real understanding of physics.

[harper05]

I agree ittiz, good point, however the money is lacking in astronomy and physics, at least for my taste.
My sister is working on her phd at usf in biophysics. She and her team have isolated the proteins capable of growing artificial retinas from scratch!! Very cool stuff

[Oxize]

LHC "bird-bread" strike


On Tuesday 3 November, a bird carrying a baguette bread caused a short
circuit in an electrical outdoor installation that serves sectors 7-8 and
8-1 of the LHC. The knock-on effects included an interruption to the
operation of the LHC cryogenics system. The bird escaped unharmed but
lost its bread.

The standard failsafe systems came into operation and after the cause
was identified, re-cooling of the machine began and the sectors were
back at operating temperature last night. The incident was similar in
effect to a standard power cut, for which the machine protection systems
are very well prepared.

(c) Cern
http://user.web.cern.ch/user/news/2009/091106b.html

How the hell a bird can fly into the LHC ring? Though those area's are verry restriced even at sector 7-8. Anyway, its running again. Hope it dont delay to much.

[MeteorWayne]

That's pretty scary. But for any high power (and LHC is the top of the pyramid as far as power consumption is concerned) loss of juice is a big concern. In my neighborhood, the power lines are underground, so are safe, but the feed line is above ground and has been knocked out 4 times in the last 2 years...

[Oxize]

I though the LHC was hermetic closed when they are running the LHC. Not even an insect could penetrate the LHC. Seems some bird found his way down, lol.

But they already at operating temperature again, so they can prepare beam testing again. Though first it was a joke when i heard this.

[MeteorWayne]

If you read the article, the bird hit power lines leading to the LHC, they were not in the tunnel.

[Smersh]

LHC "bird-bread" strike ...

The updates are on Twitter.